Sunny Edwards talks as impressively as he boxes. Which should actually be pretty difficult.
The undefeated IBF flyweight champion is engaging and erudite, speaking in certainties that bely his still-tender years. Edwards turned 26 only a couple months back, but there is a confidence that comes from a life dedicated to the sweet science – the Londoner took up boxing aged nine - and an unblemished professional CV that reads 17 victories from 17 bouts.
Last April, Edwards handed two-time champion Moruti Mthalane a first defeat in close to 13 years to capture the world title. He then defended it with distinction in Dubai in December, dominating Jayson Mama on points.
On Saturday, Edwards puts the belt on the line once more, headlining a second successive Probellum event in the emirate, when he takes on long-time rival Muhammad Waseem at the Dubai Duty Free Tennis Stadium.
Victory in this genuine grudge match will not be enough. Edwards, who typically triumphs clear on judges’ scorecards – 13 of his 17 wins have gone the distance - is out to make a statement.
“Yeah, of course,” he tells The National. “Any relatively exciting fight that I'm in is refreshing, because it's typically quite boring, seeing someone get in the ring, and for 36 minutes school someone, and just not really get caught. And that's been typical pattern on most of my fights.
“Typically, people are back and forward, back and forward, not sitting there. When they watch me, it's like listening to a classic symphony. It's just, you see the bits of drama in it, but you know where it's going. You know that the music is not going to come out and attack you. You know it's not going to change rhythm too much. That's what it's like watching me.
“But I get in my rhythm early, and see it through to the end. I've never had a close fight, never had no one score a fight against me, ever in 39 scorecards. I'm not in the business of close fights. So I expect much of the same with Waseem.
"Everything's on the line, every single time I step in the ring. It always is with me. When I'm stepping in the ring sparring, I'm not going to let someone get out of that ring and go tell stories, that they give me a hiding. It's not happening, never happened, and it never will happen. I'm too good for that.
"Genuinely, I'm not being big-headed. This is my experience of living boxing for the last 17 years. I'm good. I'm very good. Very, very good. And I've only probably shown a percent of what I'm really capable of in a professional ring, because the stakes are so much higher.”
It helps, then, that the history with Waseem is heated. Edwards, the younger brother of former WBC flyweight champion Charlie, says Waseem had previously twice turned down the opportunity to fight him.
For some time, the two have gone back and forward on social media. That animosity has been evident this week in Dubai, too, whenever paths have crossed.
“We've been in the ring together,” Edwards says. “I sparred Waseem eight rounds. And I'd got off a four-hour drive up to Scotland from Sheffield, jumped straight in the ring with him and punched his head in. In his head, he's probably thinking, ‘Oh, head guards and 14-ounce gloves.’ That's always the saving grace for people that just got their head punched in in sparring.
“But once he takes that metal bar out of his face ... when you have that big crash helmet in front of your face, where you can't feel any shots… he had one of them, in a tiny, tiny ring that suits him, and I still beat the brains off him.
“So he knows how good I am. He knows I can move like no one's business. And I'm going to surprise him, with how much I sit there and meet him, and give it to him. This is personal. This is personal between me and his coach Danny Vaughan, too.”
If Waseem, whose 2018 defeat to Mthalane stands alone as the Pakistani’s sole loss in 13 pro bouts, would not accept the fight until now, Edwards emphasises that he has for an age wanted to scratch that particular itch.
“This is a fight I've been wanting for a long time” he says. “Now, what they've all been waiting for, is one of us to win a world title. Oh, low and behold, it's me, the one that took all the risks. Well, you lot have been fighting easy fights, and not one interesting fight. I beat the kid that beat him. And that was the last time he's looked good in a boxing ring.
“I thought he's looked terrible since then. Muhammad Waseem has said a few things in private, personally over Instagram or Twitter. He said a few things on the timeline, one month after turning down the fight, then saying he'd beat my brother and me in the same night; laughable stuff, really, when he probably couldn't lace even a pair of our gloves. Two world champions, versus no world champion over there. So he's made it personal.
“He's worried. I'm not overlooking him, because you'd have to pry the IBF title out of my dead hand before I'm giving up easy. I'm being deadly serious. I've worked way too hard. And I'm way too personal about things. More than I want these world titles, I want other people not to have them. So keep this, collect all the other ones. And then see where we go from there.”
Regarded presently one of Britain's slickest boxers, Edwards is fleet-footed and fast-handed, already a master of the trade. He is lauded for his fight IQ, while he can be described outside the ring as beguiling or brash. Either way, he is in the sport for one thing only.
“Entertainment and entertaining are good,” Edwards says. “Winning is the only thing that's important in boxing. The only thing that's going to keep my forward trajectory, and going to keep clothes on my children's back, or food in their bellies, is winning. Every time I win, my money goes up. I move the right direction.
“So entertainment, yes. Try to be as much as I can. But at the same time, I'm more of a sportsman, or an athlete, than I am entertainer. And not all boxers are. Some boxers like being celebrities, like being famous. They like people stopping them for pictures. They like going on reality TV shows. They like getting easy fights, to roll over people.
“This is facts. I get nothing out of that. I like good competition. I like rivals. I like hard fights. I don't like the easy life. I don't want to sell nonsense to the public and get 15 knockouts against an easy walkover. Because I could have gone down that route.”
The thirst for genuine challenge is as much for himself, and what the future may hold.
“If I'm not pushing myself at every stage, there's going to be a time when I need to push myself, and I can't,” Edwards says. “I'm pushing myself way within myself, because really there's very few people anyway in boxing right now at my level. Even fewer at flyweight. There's a few hard fighters out there. There's a few people that have dedicated and applied themselves as much as me throughout their whole life.
“It's all the same. Just jump in a game of Fifa with me, and it'll be the same competition. I don't like losing. I hate it. My character can't… I don't like it. I'm a good loser and I can accept it - I've had to. And I'll always be humble and I'll shake the hand of the man that deserves it.
"Because I believe in respect, I believe in the discipline of the sport. And when someone beats you, they earn a certain right of your humility to them. So I understand all of that.”
Still, as witnessed throughout the course of this 40-minute interview, Edwards can engage in mental warfare whenever required.
“If that's the me they want, they can get it,” he says. “Like Muhammad Waseem, when this fight got made, could have easily started a slagging match. He tried before on Twitter, and he hasn't said a single thing. I've been trying to bait him a little - just a little bit - but I'm not interested.
“They know that they're not winning that game with me. I'm too witty. I'm too intelligent. I'm too articulate for this working class; I'm working class myself, but I was very well educated as well. So they're not trying to get in that mind games with me.”
Evidently, Edwards’ mind could be as great an asset as his talent in his bid for boxing’s apex.
“Right now, I'm in a position where I'm sat there thinking, ‘I could be one of the best that's ever boxed ever, ever, ever, ever’,” he says. “I know that sounds mad, but I've not got enough reasons suggesting to me otherwise. That's why, you offer me [WBC counterpart Julio Cesar] Martinez, I'll take it. You offer me [unbeaten WBO flyweight champion Junto] Nakatani, I'll take it. You offer me [four-weight world champion] Roman Gonzalez, or any of the champions you can throw out, I'll take it.
“I want to have fun with my career. I know I get in a ring with anyone, I'm a nightmare. Anyone. Just chuck me up two weights, against the best at bantamweight, I'm still a nightmare. I might think, ‘Let me coast and have easy title defences, get six, seven good paydays as a world champion, get all the easy mandatories and just maintain it.’
“Or I can just go for the biggest names, the biggest options, the biggest fights out there. And I'd rather do that. I'd rather end my career, something like 40 wins, five losses, couple of knockouts either side. Because I did things that people were going, ‘Why has Sunny jumped in the ring with him?’
“And who knows? I might just keep winging it. I might just keep winning. I might just keep doing the things that they're telling me I can't do. Because I live for boxing. I'm built for purpose. I can't do much else.”
Win on Saturday, and Edwards believes a unification shot at Martinez should be next. He had hoped to face the Mexican before the Waseem encounter was booked, but Martinez stepped up to junior bantamweight earlier this month to meet the almost-peerless Gonzalez. He lost via unanimous decision.
“I'll go up and down the weights, left, right and centre,” Edwards says. “I'll probably end up being a stupid-amount-of-times world champion and a stupid-amount-of-weights world champion. I'll go down to light flyweight if I feel like there's a fight there for me.
“Weight and stuff, that's no issue to me. I do everything within myself and I enjoy this boxing game too much. And I think I enjoy it too much for people to really close the gap. They're getting in, they've got a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. That's my moment, every single time. That's where I'm enjoying myself the most.
"And I feel like you can tell by the way I box. You can tell by the way I carry myself on fight week, you can tell by the way I walk around, the smile on my face. Boxing is not, and never has been, a burden to me.”
Listening to Edwards, that is apparent. He plans to back up the bravado in front of a packed Dubai crowd on Saturday night.
“They're seeing, in my eyes, the storyline unfold of hopefully a British great,” Edwards says. “I'm already doing stuff that's setting me out against my peers. I'm always getting mentioned in the top three pound-for-pound in the UK right now. If I do this one for another five, 10 years, keep winning world titles, keep winning big fights, who's to say that I can't go down as one of the best that's ever done it from Britain?
“It's the start of the journey, really. For me, I spent all this time to get to world level. And now I'm at world level, that's where my boxing career really starts now. Because these are the fights where it matters. Every fight now matters. And I've got so, so much more to show."
