Kim Ghattas is a Dutch-Lebanese journalist, author and host of the podcast 'People Like Us'. Photo: Tarek Moukaddem
Kim Ghattas is a Dutch-Lebanese journalist, author and host of the podcast 'People Like Us'. Photo: Tarek Moukaddem
Kim Ghattas is a Dutch-Lebanese journalist, author and host of the podcast 'People Like Us'. Photo: Tarek Moukaddem
Kim Ghattas is a Dutch-Lebanese journalist, author and host of the podcast 'People Like Us'. Photo: Tarek Moukaddem

How Kim Ghattas is changing the narrative around the Middle East with her podcast


Razmig Bedirian
  • English
  • Arabic

Award-winning journalist and author Kim Ghattas has launched a podcast that draws connections between the Middle East and the world, informing listeners in the Arab world and abroad how regional concerns reverberate on an international scale.

The Beirut-based podcast, People Like Us, was released on major audio streaming services last month, produced by Project Brazen in partnership with PRX.

Ghattas says it is intended to challenge the way international media typically cover the region and the way they break down stories in bits for western audiences to easily understand. A great deal of nuance and context is lost in this brevity. It also gives the impression that the issues are taking place at a distance, without consequence to the western world.

People Like Us intends to upend that assumption. The core team behind the podcast are all women and mostly from the Middle East, and the music as well as the logo of the series are commissioned works by Lebanese talents.

“I felt there was something missing in this space about conversations about the Middle East and making it accessible for a global audience,” the Dutch-Lebanese journalist tells The National.

“We are all dealing with some of the same issues. There is no ‘over there’ any more. What’s often lacking in coverage of the Middle East as well as other regions is this ability to explain to the western audience why it matters and why, at the end of the day, we are all the same, whether it comes to issues of impunity and accountability in the US with the January 6 insurrection on Capitol Hill or whether it comes to corruption in Lebanon.”

These issues, Ghattas says, are not so dissimilar and neither is the way we are dealing with them.

“It’s sort of been the great revelation of the Covid-19 pandemic,” she says. “That we are all in this together, that we’re all making some of the same mistakes.”

Initially, the podcast was envisioned as a narrative or investigative project. However, Ghattas says she instead wanted it to fill the glaring vacancy she saw in the way the Middle East was talked about in English-language coverage. Inspired by the format of Hillary Clinton’s podcast You and Me Both, Ghattas says she wanted to bring people of different cultural and professional backgrounds together to discuss a unifying theme.

“I think a lot about what binds us and what I can do to explain the Middle East better to a western audience,” she says. “What can I do to make them understand that we’re not that different? This is current affairs in a storytelling fashion. We’re telling stories in current affairs with conversations with incredible people.”

The first episode of the podcast, called What the Hell Happened?, brings together: Muqaddesa Yourish, a deputy minister of commerce and industry in Afghanistan until she had to flee Kabul in the wake of the August 2021 Taliban takeover; Lebanese writer Lina Mounzer, whose work has appeared in The New York Times, LitHub and New Lines Magazine; and US-Chinese journalist Shawn Yuan, who has covered Hong Kong and the Middle East for Vice, Al Jazeera English, BBC and Bloomberg.

The episode takes its cue from an article that Ghattas wrote last year for The Atlantic titled What the Loss of Freedom Feels Like, which points out similarities in the sociopolitical issues that Kabul, Hong Kong and Beirut are facing.

“It is inspired by some of the conversations I have around my writing,” Ghattas says. “When I was writing my article, people were wondering how I was going to put it all together. But it works. People are going through some of the same upheavals in different places around the world, and to be able to make sense of the chaos around us is something that has driven me as a journalist.

Kim Ghattas appeared on 'The Daily Show' with Trevor Noah' in January 2020 to discuss her book 'Black Wave'. Photo: Sean Gallagher
Kim Ghattas appeared on 'The Daily Show' with Trevor Noah' in January 2020 to discuss her book 'Black Wave'. Photo: Sean Gallagher

Ghattas has more than two decades of experience in broadcast journalism. She worked for the BBC covering the US State Department and is a scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. She is also a New York Times bestselling author for the 2020 book Black Wave: Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Forty-Year Rivalry that Unraveled Culture, Religion, and Collective Memory in the Middle East.

“I decided to leave [broadcast journalism] in 2017 to focus on writing books and articles,” she says. “Part of that was because I was a bit tired of the frenetic pace of news broadcasting. The other reason was because I felt something was missing in the way we approached journalism and coverage of the region.”

While Ghattas found more freedom to explore unexamined connections in her writing, People Like Us offers another dimension to her quest for meaningful coverage of the region. The podcast is not limited to exploring the Middle East in news, but also how regional stories are represented in other forms of media.

“The second episode is about Netflix, the power of online streaming, how directors deal with taboo issues, and how they are telling stories from the region for a global audience,” she says. “How do we tell our stories, for us, across 22 Arab countries in a way that is also accessible to an international audience?”

Netflix, Boundaries and Film in the Arab World features Lebanese Perfect Strangers director Wissam Smayra, Jordanian Al Rawabi School for Girls director Tima Shomali and Cinema Akil co-founder Butheina Kazim.

“This week we have the issue of impunity, from Syria to Ukraine,” Ghattas says. “There was an international rally around Ukraine when it was invaded by Russia, and there’s talk of pursuing Putin at the ICC. But there was very little attention paid to Putin when he was bombing Syrian cities. It was thought of as being ‘over there’. It wasn’t until refugees made their way to Europe that they began thinking about the issue. But they never tried to deal with the core matter.”

The episode features Janine di Giovanni, co-founder of The Reckoning Project Ukraine, Olena Sotnyk, a former member of parliament in Ukraine, and Syrian activist and journalist Wafa Mustafa.

“[Mustafa] has an incredibly mature approach to the western outrage to Putin’s attack on Ukraine,” Ghattas says. “Her response isn’t ‘why don’t they care about Syria?’ Her response is to explain why they should care about Syria, and to unite with Ukrainians to tell them what we learnt about dealing with Russia in Syria.”

Yet, Ghattas says as much as she wants to inform her audience on the wide-reaching consequences of the issues in the Middle East, she is careful “not to talk down to anyone”.

“It is one of the bigger challenges of this podcast. I don’t want to present something to the region where people will think 'that doesn’t represent me'. At the same time, I cannot do something that’s so specifically targeting a regional audience that it becomes unintelligible to a global audience. Sometimes that requires me interrupting a guest when they start talking about an event to shed context.

"At the end of the episode, you don't need to know everything, but you need to have connected, or we hope that you have connected with the people at the heart of the story.”

The biog

Favourite book: You Are the Placebo – Making your mind matter, by Dr Joe Dispenza

Hobby: Running and watching Welsh rugby

Travel destination: Cyprus in the summer

Life goals: To be an aspirational and passionate University educator, enjoy life, be healthy and be the best dad possible.

While you're here
Company profile

Name: Thndr

Started: October 2020

Founders: Ahmad Hammouda and Seif Amr

Based: Cairo, Egypt

Sector: FinTech

Initial investment: pre-seed of $800,000

Funding stage: series A; $20 million

Investors: Tiger Global, Beco Capital, Prosus Ventures, Y Combinator, Global Ventures, Abdul Latif Jameel, Endure Capital, 4DX Ventures, Plus VC,  Rabacap and MSA Capital

Specs

Engine: 51.5kW electric motor

Range: 400km

Power: 134bhp

Torque: 175Nm

Price: From Dh98,800

Available: Now

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Defence review at a glance

• Increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP by 2027 but given “turbulent times it may be necessary to go faster”

• Prioritise a shift towards working with AI and autonomous systems

• Invest in the resilience of military space systems.

• Number of active reserves should be increased by 20%

• More F-35 fighter jets required in the next decade

• New “hybrid Navy” with AUKUS submarines and autonomous vessels

GAC GS8 Specs

Engine: 2.0-litre 4cyl turbo

Power: 248hp at 5,200rpm

Torque: 400Nm at 1,750-4,000rpm

Transmission: 8-speed auto

Fuel consumption: 9.1L/100km

On sale: Now

Price: From Dh149,900

ELIO

Starring: Yonas Kibreab, Zoe Saldana, Brad Garrett

Directors: Madeline Sharafian, Domee Shi, Adrian Molina

Rating: 4/5

Company name: Farmin

Date started: March 2019

Founder: Dr Ali Al Hammadi 

Based: Abu Dhabi

Sector: AgriTech

Initial investment: None to date

Partners/Incubators: UAE Space Agency/Krypto Labs 

At a glance

Global events: Much of the UK’s economic woes were blamed on “increased global uncertainty”, which can be interpreted as the economic impact of the Ukraine war and the uncertainty over Donald Trump’s tariffs.

 

Growth forecasts: Cut for 2025 from 2 per cent to 1 per cent. The OBR watchdog also estimated inflation will average 3.2 per cent this year

 

Welfare: Universal credit health element cut by 50 per cent and frozen for new claimants, building on cuts to the disability and incapacity bill set out earlier this month

 

Spending cuts: Overall day-to day-spending across government cut by £6.1bn in 2029-30 

 

Tax evasion: Steps to crack down on tax evasion to raise “£6.5bn per year” for the public purse

 

Defence: New high-tech weaponry, upgrading HM Naval Base in Portsmouth

 

Housing: Housebuilding to reach its highest in 40 years, with planning reforms helping generate an extra £3.4bn for public finances

Family reunited

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was born and raised in Tehran and studied English literature before working as a translator in the relief effort for the Japanese International Co-operation Agency in 2003.

She moved to the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies before moving to the World Health Organisation as a communications officer.

She came to the UK in 2007 after securing a scholarship at London Metropolitan University to study a master's in communication management and met her future husband through mutual friends a month later.

The couple were married in August 2009 in Winchester and their daughter was born in June 2014.

She was held in her native country a year later.

How to avoid crypto fraud
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Know your camel milk:
Flavour: Similar to goat’s milk, although less pungent. Vaguely sweet with a subtle, salty aftertaste.
Texture: Smooth and creamy, with a slightly thinner consistency than cow’s milk.
Use it: In your morning coffee, to add flavour to homemade ice cream and milk-heavy desserts, smoothies, spiced camel-milk hot chocolate.
Goes well with: chocolate and caramel, saffron, cardamom and cloves. Also works well with honey and dates.

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%3Cp%3E1.%20Labour%20productivity%20is%20lower%20than%20the%20average%20of%20the%20developed%20economies%2C%20particularly%20in%20the%20non-tradable%20industries.%3Cbr%3E2.%20The%20low%20level%20of%20basic%20skills%20among%20workers%20and%20the%20high%20level%20of%20inequality%20between%20those%20with%20various%20skills.%3Cbr%3E3.%20Low%20employment%20rates%2C%20particularly%20among%20Arab%20women%20and%20Ultra-Othodox%20Jewish%20men.%3Cbr%3E4.%20A%20lack%20of%20basic%20knowledge%20required%20for%20integration%20into%20the%20labour%20force%2C%20due%20to%20the%20lack%20of%20core%20curriculum%20studies%20in%20schools%20for%20Ultra-Othodox%20Jews.%3Cbr%3E5.%20A%20need%20to%20upgrade%20and%20expand%20physical%20infrastructure%2C%20particularly%20mass%20transit%20infrastructure.%3Cbr%3E6.%20The%20poverty%20rate%20at%20more%20than%20double%20the%20OECD%20average.%3Cbr%3E7.%20Population%20growth%20of%20about%202%20per%20cent%20per%20year%2C%20compared%20to%200.6%20per%20cent%20OECD%20average%20posing%20challenge%20for%20fiscal%20policy%20and%20underpinning%20pressure%20on%20education%2C%20health%20care%2C%20welfare%20housing%20and%20physical%20infrastructure%2C%20which%20will%20increase%20in%20the%20coming%20years.%3C%2Fp%3E%0A
SPIDER-MAN%3A%20ACROSS%20THE%20SPIDER-VERSE
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Match info

Uefa Champions League Group H

Juventus v Valencia, Tuesday, midnight (UAE)

UAE currency: the story behind the money in your pockets
The%C2%A0specs%20
%3Cp%3E%3Cstrong%3EEngine%3A%20%3C%2Fstrong%3E3.5-litre%2C%20twin-turbo%20V6%0D%3Cbr%3E%3Cstrong%3ETransmission%3A%20%3C%2Fstrong%3E10-speed%20auto%0D%3Cbr%3E%3Cstrong%3EPower%3A%20%3C%2Fstrong%3E410hp%0D%3Cbr%3E%3Cstrong%3ETorque%3A%20%3C%2Fstrong%3E495Nm%0D%3Cbr%3E%3Cstrong%3EPrice%3A%20%3C%2Fstrong%3Estarts%20from%20Dh495%2C000%20(Dh610%2C000%20for%20the%20F-Sport%20launch%20edition%20tested)%0D%3Cbr%3E%3Cstrong%3EOn%20sale%3A%20%3C%2Fstrong%3Enow%3C%2Fp%3E%0A
The five pillars of Islam

1. Fasting 

2. Prayer 

3. Hajj 

4. Shahada 

5. Zakat 

Ipaf in numbers

Established: 2008

Prize money:  $50,000 (Dh183,650) for winners and $10,000 for those on the shortlist.

Winning novels: 13

Shortlisted novels: 66

Longlisted novels: 111

Total number of novels submitted: 1,780

Novels translated internationally: 66

Biography

Favourite Meal: Chicken Caesar salad

Hobbies: Travelling, going to the gym

Inspiration: Father, who was a captain in the UAE army

Favourite read: Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and Sharon Lechter

Favourite film: The Founder, about the establishment of McDonald's

Zombieland: Double Tap

Director: Ruben Fleischer

Stars: Woody Harrelson, Jesse Eisenberg, Emma Stone

Four out of five stars 

TECH%20SPECS%3A%20APPLE%20WATCH%20SERIES%208
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Our family matters legal consultant

Name: Hassan Mohsen Elhais

Position: legal consultant with Al Rowaad Advocates and Legal Consultants.

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HIV on the rise in the region

A 2019 United Nations special analysis on Aids reveals 37 per cent of new HIV infections in the Mena region are from people injecting drugs.

New HIV infections have also risen by 29 per cent in western Europe and Asia, and by 7 per cent in Latin America, but declined elsewhere.

Egypt has shown the highest increase in recorded cases of HIV since 2010, up by 196 per cent.

Access to HIV testing, treatment and care in the region is well below the global average.  

Few statistics have been published on the number of cases in the UAE, although a UNAIDS report said 1.5 per cent of the prison population has the virus.

Updated: November 04, 2022, 6:02 PM`